Quote from BBC News:

Google must divulge the viewing habits of every user who has ever watched any video on YouTube, a US court has ruled. The ruling comes as part of Google's legal battle with Viacom over allegations of copyright infringement.

What are your thoughts on this?

Personally I believe it should not be allowed. Users should be allowed to view what they want without having others know about it. In my eyes it's like someone sitting on your couch next to you writing down every show you watch and handing it over to a group of strangers.

I think it's a bit creepy, and it's just wrong. If it does happen, I'll probably stay off of YouTube =/

So uh.... Whats going on? So what im reading is you have to tell people what you watch in order for you to watch the videos? SO lets say, I upload a video, that i created as a fan made for Final Fantasy, and it has a song on it. and I give credit to the song creator. What will happen to me?

Posted By Nick on 3rd Jul 08 at 11:45pm

 

So uh.... Whats going on? So what im reading is you have to tell people what you watch in order for you to watch the videos? SO lets say, I upload a video, that i created as a fan made for Final Fantasy, and it has a song on it. and I give credit to the song creator. What will happen to me?

It's not that - it's that there's a lawsuit brought against Google by Viacom, and Viacom want the logs of all the "offending" videos given over to them.

oh ok.

I read the whole story, they say they are going to take out the IP addresses, as many know IP addresses are revealing almost everything about that person, unless the person uses dynamic, or proxy.

Posted By Graham on 4th Jul 08 at 12:03am

 

Posted By Nick on 3rd Jul 08 at 11:45pm

 

So uh.... Whats going on? So what im reading is you have to tell people what you watch in order for you to watch the videos? SO lets say, I upload a video, that i created as a fan made for Final Fantasy, and it has a song on it. and I give credit to the song creator. What will happen to me?

It's not that - it's that there's a lawsuit brought against Google by Viacom, and Viacom want the logs of all the "offending" videos given over to them.

Not just the offending videos; every view of every video ever recorded by the system; even those deleted.

So like people recording tv shows, or even movies, and uploaded it to YT, the people who did that will get in trouble? Like people recording movies in the Theaters then uploading them to YT.

I'm not sure; the article doesn't go into much detail about that...I'll post updated links as they come out though.

Alright cool, thanks.

Posted By Nick on 4th Jul 08 at 12:06am

 

oh ok.

I read the whole story, they say they are going to take out the IP addresses, as many know IP addresses are revealing almost everything about that person, unless the person uses dynamic, or proxy.

I wouldn't say thats true, my if you try to do geo location on my IP i show up somewhere 500 miles away.

I think this whole thing is ridiculous and people have whatever right they want to look at videos. So what if youtube has copyright issues why don't they attack the millions of songs downloaded, or the millions of dollars of software being stolen all the time.

Posted By Dylan on 10th Jul 08 at 12:24am

 

Posted By Nick on 4th Jul 08 at 12:06am

 

oh ok.

I read the whole story, they say they are going to take out the IP addresses, as many know IP addresses are revealing almost everything about that person, unless the person uses dynamic, or proxy.

I wouldn't say thats true, my if you try to do geo location on my IP i show up somewhere 500 miles away.

I think this whole thing is ridiculous and people have whatever right they want to look at videos. So what if youtube has copyright issues why don't they attack the millions of songs downloaded, or the millions of dollars of software being stolen all the time.

Because generally, programs/sites offering these either don't personally host the files and/or don't store user information for every view of every video.

Yeah My IP Address says im in another city some 50 miles away north.

and at Marc, that's true, Like VeohTV, or Watch-movies, are all legal, they just use Pirated sites.

and for songs, LimeWire, and BearShare are all legal as well. because its P2P file sharing. and sometimes you can be at a great risk of virus's when you Download from any pirated places.

....i wish i could say exaclty how i felt about this matter, but the words I would use could not be used.... and its not because i do anythihn wrong on the internet, its that its "BS" and they have no right doing it! That is a major evasion of ones privacy...

Depends how you look at it. I don't see the problem about them logging IPs. If you aren't doing anything wrong then what are you concerned about? You aren't going to caught for something you did, and if they try to pin something to you, they can't exactly prove it if you didn't do it can they.

People on YouTube and the Police aren't going to stalk you either, if they do, then either shoot them in self defence or take them to court and get them jailed...

I don't have an issue with it, invasion of privacy is BS imo, what do you have that you want to keep private? People who care about privacy invasion are those that are scared they are going to get caught for illegal things IMO.

Posted By Sven on 10th Jul 08 at 7:55am

 

Depends how you look at it. I don't see the problem about them logging IPs. If you aren't doing anything wrong then what are you concerned about? You aren't going to caught for something you did, and if they try to pin something to you, they can't exactly prove it if you didn't do it can they.

People on YouTube and the Police aren't going to stalk you either, if they do, then either shoot them in self defence or take them to court and get them jailed...

I don't have an issue with it, invasion of privacy is BS imo, what do you have that you want to keep private? People who care about privacy invasion are those that are scared they are going to get caught for illegal things IMO.

I think it's an invasion of privacy and I never watch illegal videos on Youtube.

It's the principle behind what's happening that bugs me, not the actual thing itself. Governments spend millions a year protecting privacy rights and giving people the choice to share what they do. On top of that, Google has a lawyer-written privacy policy stating that your actions will not be released to any third-party.

Now the government is going against everything they worked for, and wrongfully breaking Youtube's users' trust. It has nothing to do with whether or not you were viewing videos that were illegal, because even if you had been you could not get in trouble because Youtube is supposed to be regulating the legality of the videos it hosts, not the users.





Picture YouTube as the city you live in:

---

You go downstairs, get some breakfast, read the news. [Equivalent of reading the updates on Youtube's home page]

Next you go out to your car, and begin driving to the store. [Could be interpreted as the search feature]

You get to the store, make your purchases, then continue driving. [Viewing a video, then searching for another one]

You get to another store, and buy some more things.

You go to a few other stores, and get some other necessities.

After a day's worth of shopping, you feel tired so head back home.

---

Now, were you doing anything wrong or illegal at the stores? No, but you still wouldn't want someone following you, keeping track of what stores you went to & the route you took to get there, etc. and then handing the information over to someone else.

Thats turning the context into a whole different perspective.

There are flaws with using that argument Marc, you should know that above most others. Using an argument, by either placing it into a hypothetical situation or appropriating your response is a no, no. For many reasons:

It totally changes the though patterns of your brain. By doing what you just did, and turning browsing youtube into a day of shopping in a REAL LIFE SITUATION, it changes the perspective into something that isn't real. When browsing the internet, you are behind a barrier, to have someone else look at what you look at is no issue. For one, it is only on YouTube, not other sites. If they were to look through your entire history - that's a bit rude looking at the porno sites and stuff you go to. However, the issue is about other people know what you're doing.

Do you go to a doctor? He knows what you are doing, do you go to a Pharmacist to get medication? The Pharmacist knows, plus at least 3 assistants know what is happening. Do you blink an eye? No...you would if they told other people. To do what you just did, look at this.

You go to a doctor, as you have a serious irritation around your genitalia - obviously, a highly embarrassing problem. The doctor tells you, you have Public Lice (Crabs) and have to get special cream from the Pharmacist, he writes you up a prescription of medicine.

Now, you walk to the pharmacist, you hand your script over to the pharmacy assistant with dispensary training, he/she now knows. They hand it to the pharmacist who looks at it and puts it in order of emergency, he/she now knows. Another pharmacist may look at it and also fill it, he/she now knows. You then have to pay for it, by giving the script to the cashier, he/she now knows.

So, all in all, isn't the doctor really breaching confidentiality? None of the other 3 - 4 people are going to use that information against you, and you aren't worried. They know, you have an embarrassing problem. It may even be illegal as pharmacies hand our Heroin medication for addicts who want to quit. So that is an illegal practice that up to 5 people know about now.

Now, lets turn it into a YouTube situation.

YouTube is telling someone else (the police) about private business, just like the doctor told the pharmacist who inturn told the assistant, who told other people etc, etc.

THE SAME PRINCIPLE APPLIES HERE! YouTube looking at your IP and using it for security reasons should not be confronting, it should not be a worry. They log it, for use for suspects of uploading copyrighted material. Therefor, the police will only ask for it if you have uploaded any videos of this kind, or done anything suspicious. Just because you looked at the video does NOT mean that the police will request your IP address, at all, and if they do? You won't know unless you get arrested - and it would have been for a good reason too.

This is not a big issue, it's a lot of gas bagging and carrying on in my opinion. The government is still protecting your privacy in that only YouTube and Police will see your IP - People in China can't find it, your next door neighbor sure won't see it. Whats the big issue? I still fail to see one! (Cause there isn't one to begin with!).

I'm assuming you didn't read through the article...YouTube is handing over the information of every view of every video ever recorded in their system, not just uploads. They're also not handing it to the police, they're handing it to the company that's suing them.

The company is saying that they will only use it for the trial, but you don't know that they'll hold up their end.


As for the doctor's example, the variables aren't the same. In the situation you presented it's your choice to hand over the paper to the pharmacist and give away the details. You could choose to have your doctor directly handle the prescription so that no one else knows, or you could just live with the problem.

In what's happening here you have no choice in having the information handed over; you can't choose an alternate more private option because you're not directly involved in the information being handed over. Which is why the being "stalked" example works, while the "doctor" example you provided is not the same thing.

To answer your question I didn't read the article which makes me look like an idiot as of now. From what was given without reading the article (my laziness) it was being handed to the police etc.

Whatever, I see the point now as to the privacy issue that was raised, however, my point still stands within its context lol.

Posted By Sven on 10th Jul 08 at 12:22pm

 

To answer your question I didn't read the article which makes me look like an idiot as of now. From what was given without reading the article (my laziness) it was being handed to the police etc.

Whatever, I see the point now as to the privacy issue that was raised, however, my point still stands within its context lol.

Haha, no worries; we all have our lazy moments.

I got an email saying that 1 of my videos were copyrighted infringed. I had put the Song, and Song artist on it, to give credit. They also emailed me about another one that the song was copyrighted, and I mixed the song myself, with my own created music. and.... It has been deleted. Even though i really don't care about it, it was wrong.

The internet is never safe. Anyone can hack into your account and computer these days. It's scary.

Posted By rosebud on 10th Jul 08 at 11:03pm

 

The internet is never safe. Anyone can hack into your account and computer these days. It's scary.

Yep you are right rosebud, thats why you need to have high tech security, and that is why Vista is so Secure is because of it. Ive had people try to access my computer, and Nortan blocked it, I had about 20 attacks from the same IP address, and about 100 Viruses that were blocked from Nortan.

Posted By Nick on 10th Jul 08 at 11:34pm

 

Posted By rosebud on 10th Jul 08 at 11:03pm

 

The internet is never safe. Anyone can hack into your account and computer these days. It's scary.

Yep you are right rosebud, thats why you need to have high tech security, and that is why Vista is so Secure is because of it. Ive had people try to access my computer, and Nortan blocked it, I had about 20 attacks from the same IP address, and about 100 Viruses that were blocked from Nortan.

It's not necessarily the OS though, i've had XP for years and had very few problems - it's down to if you have a good firewall/anti-virus or not. Plus, if someone really wanted to they could bypass those.

Anyway, i digress *nudges the thread back on topic*

...ya thats how i'd feel about it...

If they were to give out my information, id be annoyed. Their ToS clearly states they will not give our my personal information. Unless they make me re-read and sign a new ToS that says they can. If they dont and they do, I will sue them for alot of money, because its wrong. Plus since when can people give out email address of other people without our permission? I think that google would rather close youtube, then ruin everything they've worked for.

Posted By example on 19th Jul 08 at 6:31am

 

If they were to give out my information, id be annoyed. Their ToS clearly states they will not give our my personal information. Unless they make me re-read and sign a new ToS that says they can. If they dont and they do, I will sue them for alot of money, because its wrong. Plus since when can people give out email address of other people without our permission? I think that google would rather close youtube, then ruin everything they've worked for.

State laws may protect that, but the federal law doesn't. Google's case was taken to the top levels I believe, so they have no choice.

It's like the journalist source protection. The state cannot order the author to give up the source for leaked information but the federal government can.

So IMO the feds with be at your door. "Sir or ma'am You are in violation of the Law you are coming with us." When in return the user is mainly a looker instead of an uploader. I know many people who joined 2 years or so ago, and never uploaded a thing.

From what I've read and understood the judge has changed his ruling.

All of the info wont be given, but other things will be. It's in their blog thing, I was just glad to read that it's changed for the better

Posted By example on 19th Jul 08 at 6:31am

 

If they were to give out my information, id be annoyed. Their ToS clearly states they will not give our my personal information. Unless they make me re-read and sign a new ToS that says they can. If they dont and they do, I will sue them for alot of money, because its wrong. Plus since when can people give out email address of other people without our permission? I think that google would rather close youtube, then ruin everything they've worked for.

A company talks about how it uses information in it's Privacy Policy, not it's Terms of Service. Google's Privacy Policy clearly states that information will be shared with others to aid legal process; something you agree to by using YouTube, or opening an account.

Quote:

Information sharing

---

Google only shares personal information with other companies or individuals outside of Google in the following limited circumstances:

We have your consent. We require opt-in consent for the sharing of any sensitive personal information.

We provide such information to our subsidiaries, affiliated companies or other trusted businesses or persons for the purpose of processing personal information on our behalf. We require that these parties agree to process such information based on our instructions and in compliance with this Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures.

We have a good faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of such information is reasonably necessary to (a) satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request, (b) enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations thereof, (c) detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security or technical issues, or (d) protect against imminent harm to the rights, property or safety of Google, its users or the public as required or permitted by law.

If Google becomes involved in a merger, acquisition, or any form of sale of some or all of its assets, we will provide notice before personal information is transferred and becomes subject to a different privacy policy.

We may share with third parties certain pieces of aggregated, non-personal information, such as the number of users who searched for a particular term, for example, or how many users clicked on a particular advertisement. Such information does not identify you individually.

Please contact us at the address below for any additional questions about the management or use of personal data.

---

Quote:

So IMO the feds with be at your door. "Sir or ma'am You are in violation of the Law you are coming with us." When in return the user is mainly a looker instead of an uploader. I know many people who joined 2 years or so ago, and never uploaded a thing.

It's the same thing as watching movies illegally on the internet; you didn't upload them but you're still breaking the law by viewing them.